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Evil Pimp

[BETA TEST] Mapping

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Evil Pimp

I took part in the beta testing today and I don't approve of the mapping that's been put forth in Ocean Flats. It's tacky to have a set of flats across the street from the country club. The LS houses down the block were not appealing either. You should stick with the buildings that are already there and work on making the area itself look grittier and grimier.  

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Halycen
12 minutes ago, Evil Pimp said:

I took part in the beta testing today and I don't approve of the mapping that's been put forth in Ocean Flats. It's tacky to have a set of flats across the street from the country club. The LS houses down the block were not appealing either. You should stick with the buildings that are already there and work on making the area itself look grittier and grimier.  


Although I appreciate feedback, we're not on 0.3.8 yet so a cohesive re-texture of the area isn't available just yet unless it's kept client-side. I would love to do re-texture the area once it's server-side, rather than just sticking to mapping.

A few things below:

 

- We wanted an established low-wealth/ghetto area involving an apartment complex, and a series of homes that have a "rundown" look. Originally, we were just going to keep the houses already there and just throw trash on 'em. This wasn't the case, so, we wiped four blocks and made them our own.
 

- It's (really) hard to find the right balance of what's going to work. Hence why we had this beta test. I expected hella more feedback on the mapping, and I'm glad you made a post.

 

- I'd like to see what everyone else has to say, and anything else to be added before going back to the drawing boards. 

 

What I imagined:

 

- A re-textured area with older looking (apartment) buildings, nasty alleyways with heroin needles tucked aside in the gutters along the streets. That's just a vague image, but, it's tough to get the right balance down! :( 

 

 

Edited by ChrisRawr

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Faledak

The bushes and trees and such are cool IMO but I'm not a big fan of the choice of houses. Maybe original houses with new textures like you mentioned.

 

Maybe with

 

dirtylightconcrete.jpgdirtysnow.jpglightsand.jpg

 

EDIT:

 

This could've been a decent area also.

 

latest?cb=20100525100610

Edited by Faledak

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Simeon

I think the default houses in Ocean Flats look the best and should be left alone. If the area needs to be more run down, just add graffiti, trash, and more places to loiter around. The LS houses don't mesh together too well with the SF houses a street down. When I've showed people San Fierro, the first thing they say and like about it is the Ocean Flats area and housing. I think it shouldn't be messed with, other than cosmetic changes.

 

In my opinion, the mapping with the new rundown houses in Ocean Flats should be removed.

 

It's not that I'm against changes and new mapping being added, but I believe that players would be more excited to role play in a neighborhood with houses they haven't role played with before (role playing in SF is a new experience for most players here). It would be a bit 'meh' if you stick them in an area that looks exactly like something out of Los Santos. You lose the charm of the city design.

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josef
4 hours ago, Simeon said:

I think the default houses in Ocean Flats look the best and should be left alone. If the area needs to be more run down, just add graffiti, trash, and more places to loiter around. The LS houses don't mesh together too well with the SF houses a street down. When I've showed people San Fierro, the first thing they say and like about it is the Ocean Flats area and housing. I think it shouldn't be messed with, other than cosmetic changes.

 

In my opinion, the mapping with the new rundown houses in Ocean Flats should be removed.

 

It's not that I'm against changes and new mapping being added, but I believe that players would be more excited to role play in a neighborhood with houses they haven't role played with before (role playing in SF is a new experience for most players here). It would be a bit 'meh' if you stick them in an area that looks exactly like something out of Los Santos. You lose the charm of the city design.

You’ve mentioned some great points here that I agree with for the most part. I myself am fond on the overall appearance of the ocean flats area as it is in the base game, and whilst I am in love with the mapping you’ve produced Chris, understandably in a short space of time, perhaps Ocean Flats is not the best area for such a ghetto. 

 

Until 0.3.8 launches, I understand and acknowledge that it’ll be difficult to texture what is already there, but in the meantime it could be a good idea to just play around with adding objects, and placing that map (or a different one) elsewhere. 

 

Just my two cents! 

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tw1ster

Would like some more community input on this, how many people (who have seen the map in game. I know I TP'd like 100 of you!) would just prefer a more loitered area with the default houses? You kind of have a point now that I critically look at it, I myself spent a decent 6-7 hours trying to make it more appealing and "fit" in with the SF area, but the houses do seem kind of out of place. The thing is, we can only make these pretty houses look so slummy.. idk. I'll try and post some SS's here and get some feedback, honestly maybe we should've been more in tuned and involved with the community as we made these mapping updates.

 

Thankfully, this is what the beta testing is for, so we can adjust things and make them more appealing to everyone. I'd love for the topic to continue on while I will post at a later date (relatively soon.) with some of the mapping requested in the OP.

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Pluto

honestly, although we appreciate the work you've done with mapping - the default san fierro houses look better imo, perhaps a quick texture edit though; turn the multicolored houses into something more, well, rustic.

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Evil Pimp

We're not asking for you to turn SF into the Congo. It really looks fine how it is. The trash, dumpsters and everything else besides the flats and the houses looks good. What if you put the flats in Bayside? I would just throw some more seating arrangements in Ocean Flats. Make the area looked LIVED in. It doesn't have to be destroyed or dilapidated. I map interiors and that's one of my main goals every single time I build an interior. Make it look like people really live there. 

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tw1ster
1 hour ago, Evil Pimp said:

We're not asking for you to turn SF into the Congo. It really looks fine how it is. The trash, dumpsters and everything else besides the flats and the houses looks good. What if you put the flats in Bayside? I would just throw some more seating arrangements in Ocean Flats. Make the area looked LIVED in. It doesn't have to be destroyed or dilapidated. I map interiors and that's one of my main goals every single time I build an interior. Make it look like people really live there. 

 

For sure, appreciate the feedback I'm gonna try and cook some shit up today and get some feedback on it. I don't know how I feel about changing up Bayside, I really like it how it is. I just think we fucked up in thinking we could make SF mimic a ghetto as Los Santos. SF has a distinct originality that we overlooked when mapping.

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Sparx

Yeah SF is what SF is. I didn't really mind it but yet again I don't have an eye for real run down architecture so I didn't really hold an opinion. The mapping efforts were good. SF is supposed to be an upper-class city, but we need to meet in the middle and making areas already existing areas look run down seems like a good idea.

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ichester

In my opinion, the mapping added to Ocean Flats in order to give it a ghetto look is great, and I also liked the fact that you kept some of the houses the way they are to fit the area. Regarding the huge clubhouse down the road, I believe that it has no use at all and it can all be wiped down into an even bigger housing project, with basketball courts, fast food shops or even a police precinct(that can be all discussed).

 

Point is, why wipe the ghetto and go back to default when you can design it in a way to fit the server's needs? I say, keep the ghetto and think about improving it.

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Evil Pimp
1 hour ago, ichester said:

In my opinion, the mapping added to Ocean Flats in order to give it a ghetto look is great, and I also liked the fact that you kept some of the houses the way they are to fit the area. Regarding the huge clubhouse down the road, I believe that it has no use at all and it can all be wiped down into an even bigger housing project, with basketball courts, fast food shops or even a police precinct(that can be all discussed).

 

Point is, why wipe the ghetto and go back to default when you can design it in a way to fit the server's needs? I say, keep the ghetto and think about improving it.

What are they meant to do with the acres of golf course after they delete the country club? The houses look extremely out of place and they're really overdone. They don't match the default architecture at all and really take away from the entire point of roleplaying in SF in the first place. I was speaking to @tw1ster about making the area look like it's halfway through being gentrified. San Francisco is a very progressive city and San Fierro should be the same way. If the mappers go with the gentrification idea it will open a lot of doors for government roleplayers and it would allow people to roleplay general contractors and construction workers. As time goes on the construction sites can be turned into actual houses or housing projects. I agree with Simeon that having LS houses and flats in the center of the coolest part of SF is ugly and repetitive.

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tw1ster
2 hours ago, ichester said:

In my opinion, the mapping added to Ocean Flats in order to give it a ghetto look is great, and I also liked the fact that you kept some of the houses the way they are to fit the area. Regarding the huge clubhouse down the road, I believe that it has no use at all and it can all be wiped down into an even bigger housing project, with basketball courts, fast food shops or even a police precinct(that can be all discussed).

 

Point is, why wipe the ghetto and go back to default when you can design it in a way to fit the server's needs? I say, keep the ghetto and think about improving it.

 

My main issue with the ghetto we made is we removed the housing in SF and slapped a portion of Los Santos in it. On paper to me, it sounded like a good idea, until we executed it. We had to overlap objects on top of the base game floor to compensate for minuscule, extra space that was left when we deleted the original SF homes. There was a "black area" per say where players would fall through the map, which forced us to map a type of flooring awkwardly into the homes we placed, which in turn looks bad, making some side/backyards look like hop-scotch courts.

 

You have to look at Ocean Flats from a macro-perspective, in the grand scheme of things what we mapped simply just isn't cohesive with the atmosphere provided. We made the mistake of trying to import Los Santos into San Fierro and completely disregarded the fact that San Fierro has a distinct, unique look about it, and we should've worked with that rather than change the script and shove East Los Santos into it. There's also a pretty scarce guideline when it comes to exterior mapping, we don't want to overload players with objects to render. The original ghetto we made had about 500 objects, I trimmed it down to about 320 and even with the shaving off of the top, it just didn't sit right. Me and Chris went ahead and pushed it to the test to get feedback on it any-who, considering the amount of time we spent on it.

 

As far as removing the golf course goes, I think it'll add more headaches than problems it will solve. I went in a map editor and toyed around with it and I was just left stumped as to what I may put in it's place. There also presents the issue of adding more exterior objects into Ocean Flats, I don't want players to drive into Ocean Flats and be slapped with 1,000 objects to load. Players are going to start crashing and lagging and that's a whole other problem to add on top.

 

And just to clarify, everything is still in a beta testing phase, we didn't expect to nail it on the head the first time and we've got great feedback on where to go next.

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Lucky

The Ocean Flats actually are great for gang RP itself, I don't see why you need to remap them. You have back yards, you have alleyways, the front is normal too. They're normal for low-med income families.

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Midnight Tick

Nevermind trap houses and houses that resemble of most of Detroit. San Fierro has its own way to create houses and their designs are much more developed than Los Santos. Those house styles should be discarded.

What I see from driving around San Fierro is that there's a big lack of motels, apartment complexes and flats. In fact, Juniper Hallow and Juniper Hills for example have the same sort of housing everywhere. The same goes for what I would call Chi-Town as their buildings are extremely of the same thing. There's not many motels, apartments and flats in San Fierro compared to Las Venturas and Los Santos. In fact, I would say there's probably less than ten apartment complexes in San Fierro unless you made a big house, an apartment complex itself.

The most realistic way to have gangs around San Fierro is to apply buildings that are very accessible for the poor. Apartment complexes, flats, motels come to mind. San Fierro's housing methods seem to be of very great designs both inside and outside of their buildings, with the exception of maybe Doherty and Ocean Flats. I'm not saying that Juniper Hills and Juniper Hallow aren't potential gang areas, but both aforementioned locations seem to have the poorest house designs compared to the two Junipers.

 

San Francisco has a ton of motels. San Fierro really doesn't have that. The accessibility of San Fierro seems to lack because of how many great houses there are, meaning that no gangs would touch that. Of course, it all comes down to IC and RP, but to be quite frank, you really wouldn't see a developing gang member buying a fancy house that costs about a million in San Fierro.

Here's a couple of buildings that have potential for San Fierro. Of course there are a ton of buildings that could pass as apartment complexes, but the ones linked are the obvious.

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